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“Honor Thyself”
This discourse isn’t so much directly related to Gothic Bellydance has it has to do with body image and respect, and particularly young women.
I’d like to think of myself as a somewhat balanced person when it comes to sex, sexuality, and the human body. My parents weren’t exactly hippies, but they have always been far from being tight-laced/conservative in general. Our house was full of art books depicting the greatest collections of art from museums all over the world (i.e. lots of global nudes). The Playboy magazines weren’t hidden (quite easily accessible in my parents’ bathroom), and my mom was never weird about getting changed in front of me at any age. I never got in trouble for drawing nudes (at least from my parents, at school, it was another matter…somewhere around 5th or 6th grade, I draw the backsides of a boy and girl in transparent gowns to show purity for some religious exercise we were doing, and that caused a small ruckus...). I do remember when I was about 7 or 8, popping in “Flashdance” in the VCR one morning, and my parents deciding that wasn’t appropriate for me to be watching by myself, but it’s not like I understood what was going on, I just wanted to see the dancing! Basically, I emerged from my upbringing with a healthy respect for the human body, both male and female, and no bias towards sexual preference/orientation. I have no issues with strippers, I love GOOD burlesque, and think the female body is just magnificent in all shapes and sizes.
So with that stated, I recently witnessed something that made me question the state of our society, and feel somewhat ashamed to be a woman, for lack of a better description. Now, there have been plenty of times while listening to NPR, reading the paper, seeing the news on TV that I’ve felt ashamed of being HUMAN, for what we do this planet and other people, but to feel distress as a woman is not a familiar situation for me. Ok, maybe that’s a tad melodramatic, but I AM a Goth, I’m allowed that.
Recently I attended an alternative modeling contest. It was the first time I attended this particular event, and was picturing something more akin to the model competitions we see on TV, but for Goths. I have witnessed several Gothic fashion shows, and often marveled at the beautiful diversity of the models, and when I walked into the venue to set-up for vending, I was met with a sea of beautiful freaks – all sorts of different colored hair, tattoos, piercings, all different and wonderful. It was a lovely sight to behold. It made me super excited for the evening’s events – I’m a huge people-watcher – I LOVE studying people, how they dress and carry themselves and interact with each other. Gothic-anthropology perhaps?
The competition was set up boys and girls – meaning each gender had it’s own category. The contestants were given a top from one of the sponsors to alter as they wish, as long as the logo was intact. There was somewhat of a slut factor involved in the presentation of some of the girls, but I didn’t think much of it. Short micro-mini’s are rampant (or were, they seem to be going out from the latest batch of Gothic trends), but it was mainly a lot of boob gesturing, but hey, if you got ‘em, flaunt ‘em right? The boys were more tame in general. Both groups seem rather inexperienced with the concept of modeling, especially with walking, but hey, competitions can be nerve-wracking right?
The second round for the ladies (I’m not sure what the guys were doing in the second round) was to model corsets provided by the sponsors. A few of the girls came out with not much more than the corset on, but I chalked this up to not being prepared (as some girls knew about it, some were wild cards and didn’t know if they were going to be in the next round), and being cheeky and spontaneous to make up for the lack of more clothing. I made an emergency bustle out of 3 yards of glittery bat fabric and safety pins for one of these gals, and she looked elegant and lovely.
The third round was freestyle – the model’s own choosing and to really show off their stuff. It was here that my brain had nothing short of a minor meltdown. Out of perhaps 20 girls, no more than 3 didn’t do something akin to stripper routine, and even then, they were borderline. Again, I don’t have anything against strippers, and I love burlesque, but this wasn’t burlesque, and I’m sure better strip shows could be had at the Foxy Lady’s “Legs & Eggs” morning strip events. (New Englanders everywhere just cringed massively.) Apparently “crowd reaction” was a judging category for this round, and the great majority figured that the best way to do this was to strip. After the first few, it was “oh look, another set of boobs and pasties” again and again. I was surrounded by male colleagues and they weren’t impressed in the least (and yes, they were mostly straight). I wondered what the boys would do…
The boy’s third round was a much different story. Yeap, there were a few strip routines in there, but the majority of them danced and really showed off their moves, their agility, and their PERSONALITY…mainly, it was a reversal of the girls’ round.
In the realm of my brain, it struck me that something was terribly wrong. Why did these girls think that the best way to show themselves was to strip? Someone said that a lot of them WERE strippers, but I highly doubted that, unless maybe I just expect there to be a lot more talent involved, or at least better stage presence. Maybe I’m just getting old, but it worries me greatly that girls who are 10-15 years my junior (and come on, I ain’t THAT old) automatically reduce themselves to objects. I know modeling often involves nudity, but this didn’t have anything to do with the artful display of the human body and it’s wondrous nature. It lacked introspection and depth, it lacked a sense of personal identity. It wasn’t sensual or even really sexy. It was very painful to witness. It was a prime example of “Less isn’t More, it’s Less.”
In the end, the winners were the ones who showed personality and really showed off the clothes in how they presented themselves (and for the most part, kept their clothes on.)
I know there’s tons of debate about bellydance and stripping, and the infuriation of the two being confused, then add Burlesque to the mix, and you’ve got a whole other can of worms. Really, that’s the least of my worries. I find that the majority of people who confuse the two REALLY are essentially ignorant in general about the human body and sexuality. No matter what we’re up there doing and how we present ourselves, there will always be a moron who thinks otherwise.
My concern is for our next generation of girls and what they think of themselves and their bodies. It’s like society went from being prudes to teaching absolute violation of the body (while simultaneously punishing both extremes). I don’t think it’s about being open and forthright about sex, I think it’s about a lack of self-respect and true understanding about the beauty, power, and mystery of our bodies.
I really wanted to go backstage and talk to these girls and see what was in their heads. And share secrets with them: that if you show less, you say more about who you are as a person, and create a story. We really don’t want to see it all, we’re happier to allow our imaginations ponder what’s hiding. That true beauty doesn’t come from the exposure of skin, but the careful exposure of the self. And for others to really see that, you need to begin with honoring yourself, body and soul.
This discourse isn’t so much directly related to Gothic Bellydance has it has to do with body image and respect, and particularly young women.
I’d like to think of myself as a somewhat balanced person when it comes to sex, sexuality, and the human body. My parents weren’t exactly hippies, but they have always been far from being tight-laced/conservative in general. Our house was full of art books depicting the greatest collections of art from museums all over the world (i.e. lots of global nudes). The Playboy magazines weren’t hidden (quite easily accessible in my parents’ bathroom), and my mom was never weird about getting changed in front of me at any age. I never got in trouble for drawing nudes (at least from my parents, at school, it was another matter…somewhere around 5th or 6th grade, I draw the backsides of a boy and girl in transparent gowns to show purity for some religious exercise we were doing, and that caused a small ruckus...). I do remember when I was about 7 or 8, popping in “Flashdance” in the VCR one morning, and my parents deciding that wasn’t appropriate for me to be watching by myself, but it’s not like I understood what was going on, I just wanted to see the dancing! Basically, I emerged from my upbringing with a healthy respect for the human body, both male and female, and no bias towards sexual preference/orientation. I have no issues with strippers, I love GOOD burlesque, and think the female body is just magnificent in all shapes and sizes.
So with that stated, I recently witnessed something that made me question the state of our society, and feel somewhat ashamed to be a woman, for lack of a better description. Now, there have been plenty of times while listening to NPR, reading the paper, seeing the news on TV that I’ve felt ashamed of being HUMAN, for what we do this planet and other people, but to feel distress as a woman is not a familiar situation for me. Ok, maybe that’s a tad melodramatic, but I AM a Goth, I’m allowed that.
Recently I attended an alternative modeling contest. It was the first time I attended this particular event, and was picturing something more akin to the model competitions we see on TV, but for Goths. I have witnessed several Gothic fashion shows, and often marveled at the beautiful diversity of the models, and when I walked into the venue to set-up for vending, I was met with a sea of beautiful freaks – all sorts of different colored hair, tattoos, piercings, all different and wonderful. It was a lovely sight to behold. It made me super excited for the evening’s events – I’m a huge people-watcher – I LOVE studying people, how they dress and carry themselves and interact with each other. Gothic-anthropology perhaps?
The competition was set up boys and girls – meaning each gender had it’s own category. The contestants were given a top from one of the sponsors to alter as they wish, as long as the logo was intact. There was somewhat of a slut factor involved in the presentation of some of the girls, but I didn’t think much of it. Short micro-mini’s are rampant (or were, they seem to be going out from the latest batch of Gothic trends), but it was mainly a lot of boob gesturing, but hey, if you got ‘em, flaunt ‘em right? The boys were more tame in general. Both groups seem rather inexperienced with the concept of modeling, especially with walking, but hey, competitions can be nerve-wracking right?
The second round for the ladies (I’m not sure what the guys were doing in the second round) was to model corsets provided by the sponsors. A few of the girls came out with not much more than the corset on, but I chalked this up to not being prepared (as some girls knew about it, some were wild cards and didn’t know if they were going to be in the next round), and being cheeky and spontaneous to make up for the lack of more clothing. I made an emergency bustle out of 3 yards of glittery bat fabric and safety pins for one of these gals, and she looked elegant and lovely.
The third round was freestyle – the model’s own choosing and to really show off their stuff. It was here that my brain had nothing short of a minor meltdown. Out of perhaps 20 girls, no more than 3 didn’t do something akin to stripper routine, and even then, they were borderline. Again, I don’t have anything against strippers, and I love burlesque, but this wasn’t burlesque, and I’m sure better strip shows could be had at the Foxy Lady’s “Legs & Eggs” morning strip events. (New Englanders everywhere just cringed massively.) Apparently “crowd reaction” was a judging category for this round, and the great majority figured that the best way to do this was to strip. After the first few, it was “oh look, another set of boobs and pasties” again and again. I was surrounded by male colleagues and they weren’t impressed in the least (and yes, they were mostly straight). I wondered what the boys would do…
The boy’s third round was a much different story. Yeap, there were a few strip routines in there, but the majority of them danced and really showed off their moves, their agility, and their PERSONALITY…mainly, it was a reversal of the girls’ round.
In the realm of my brain, it struck me that something was terribly wrong. Why did these girls think that the best way to show themselves was to strip? Someone said that a lot of them WERE strippers, but I highly doubted that, unless maybe I just expect there to be a lot more talent involved, or at least better stage presence. Maybe I’m just getting old, but it worries me greatly that girls who are 10-15 years my junior (and come on, I ain’t THAT old) automatically reduce themselves to objects. I know modeling often involves nudity, but this didn’t have anything to do with the artful display of the human body and it’s wondrous nature. It lacked introspection and depth, it lacked a sense of personal identity. It wasn’t sensual or even really sexy. It was very painful to witness. It was a prime example of “Less isn’t More, it’s Less.”
In the end, the winners were the ones who showed personality and really showed off the clothes in how they presented themselves (and for the most part, kept their clothes on.)
I know there’s tons of debate about bellydance and stripping, and the infuriation of the two being confused, then add Burlesque to the mix, and you’ve got a whole other can of worms. Really, that’s the least of my worries. I find that the majority of people who confuse the two REALLY are essentially ignorant in general about the human body and sexuality. No matter what we’re up there doing and how we present ourselves, there will always be a moron who thinks otherwise.
My concern is for our next generation of girls and what they think of themselves and their bodies. It’s like society went from being prudes to teaching absolute violation of the body (while simultaneously punishing both extremes). I don’t think it’s about being open and forthright about sex, I think it’s about a lack of self-respect and true understanding about the beauty, power, and mystery of our bodies.
I really wanted to go backstage and talk to these girls and see what was in their heads. And share secrets with them: that if you show less, you say more about who you are as a person, and create a story. We really don’t want to see it all, we’re happier to allow our imaginations ponder what’s hiding. That true beauty doesn’t come from the exposure of skin, but the careful exposure of the self. And for others to really see that, you need to begin with honoring yourself, body and soul.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 10:05 AMVery nice. I agree so much with what you've written. I, myself, have issues with strippers but it's not because they take their clothes off. For me it's the reasoning behind why they take their clothes off. Not all of them are like this, but the ones I've met seem to have such a skewed view of themselves and their own self-worth. It can be frustrating when people insist on viewing and treating themselves as nothing more than sexual fodder for the highest bidder. Especially when we know how beautiful and amazing our bodies are.
Thanks so much for these articles. I look forward to the next one.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 10:28 AMIt is so great to see the same thoughts as I have written out so eloquently. It is always nice to know you are not alone in your views. This comes at a time when I just tried to explain to 18 year that she has a lot more to offer someone than just her body. She really doesn't think she does. So she wants to make the most of it while she can. It makes her feel good that so many boys want to be with her and are willing to risk their relationships by having affairs with her.
As to the views on bellydance, I was watching a ballroom dancing competition and got so mad that I wanted to throw a book at the tv. Here these girls are practically wearing NOTHING, just a few strings of beads and it is still considered "classy". That was actually the word used by one of the judges, about a girl who barely had a stitch of clothing on and was practically grinding her partner. I say Latin Dancing is Waaaaaaaayyyy more sexual than bellydancing but no one ever calls those girls sluts. Well, my mom does; but not many people do. My point is, people are confused by what they see because of what they are being told to see. Society at large tells you that Ballroom dancing is respectable so these dancers can do what ever they want. Society at large tells people than bellydancing is hypersexualized so they are critical. And then there was the B***H that dared to say that the pow-wow dancing I love to watch was "uncivilized". And Latin grinding is? much of Latin dancing IS animal instinct unleashed! How the hell could jingle dress dancing be.......UGH......I'll show her uncivilized......
(Just have to point out, I have nothing against Latin Dancing. I enjoy it as an art form. I'm only trying to make points)
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 11:27 AMI completely agree.
It makes me sad to think that these girls were reducing themselves to statues of flesh, as if there was no brain power or personality contained within. I think somewhere along the way the sexual revolution lost it's sense of what authentic, embodied sexuality is really like. The power of "sexy" comes from a confident, sassy presence born of self-knowledge and respect. Without those things it becomes only a sad, empty parody of itself. And this is what you see in some strippers. (Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against strippers, I've known too many of them).
I really like what you said about the value of mystery, as a route to exposing the self.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 11:51 AMI think a vast majority of the girls in alternative modeling are looking for people to admire and envy them, they are also well aware that "sex sells" so they turn it up.
Generally modeling and nudity can go together but a lot of models and photogs are pushing for EDGY with their shoots, they want to take it to the next level so they can damn well be ALTERNATIVE. I've given up on most goth modeling or whatever shoot ideas get tossed my way because they expect raunch and skanky when you say you do nudes. Now,most have seen Kate Moss's nipples, but she wouldn't be caught dead doing some of the poses that I see on most "edgy" portfolios.
Like I said, many are seeking acceptance and and want it so badly they are willing to do anything to one up the competition; they generally don't care about the reaction (as in desensitizing to the female form) or the fact that they are making the standard grotesquely naked (in contrast to tastefully nude). And to make matters worse, some will then snap back that they are proud of their bodies and modern feminists or something like that because of what they do, a strong woman in charge of their sexuality, etc.
and you totally see this wreaking off of some young bellydancers who have nice trim or cut bodies...it may not be as bad as in the modeling world... bit it exists. -
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 12:59 PMAdd to this that unfortunately, acting/dressing this way is a surefire way to get attention and make (surface level, superficial) friends in the goth clubs, at least in the city Motherpuffer and I live in, to the point where it's a total cliché. Dress slutty, grind another girl on the dance floor, and everybody knows your name. It is sad because when you talk to some of these women one on one, they are thoughtful, intelligent people, but don't seem to know how to gain entry into a social scene except through their bodies. Brains aren't just for zombies, everybody else likes them too!
Legs and Eggs--I did cringe! ;-)
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 12:01 PMKindof makes me think back to a day where I went into one of those specialty stores in the mall, and saw thong underwear being marketed to 6 year olds. What the hell is happening to our young women??? I agree completely, what a shame!
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 12:40 PMTempest, thank you for sharing this.
As a soon-to-be mother of a daughter, I've become increasingly concerned about the over-sexualization of younger and younger women. In a culture where Paris Hilton is famous for having had a sex tape and NOTHING else, where you can buy thong underwear and short shorts with "juicy" on the butt in glittery sparkles, what are we teaching our daughters? That they are worth nothing but their sexuality?
I think it some ways it is the rebellion against 30 years of strong feminism, where we were told that femininity was less important than strength and self-reliance. We're rubberbanding to the opposite extreme.
I hope I can raise my daughter to respect ALL of her sides: her feminine, her strong, her dependent, her independent, her sexual, her sensual, and her practical sides.
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Unsu...
Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 1:42 PMTempest, I share your concern about this issue. I think sometimes the urge to strip is a misdirection/misapplication of the quite natural urge for freedom and empowerment.
I read a great book that relates to this:
www.amazon.com/Female-Cha...ef=pd_bbs_1
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 2:12 PMAll I have to say is "BRAVO!" and "I couldn't agree more." Pretty much everyone else has said everything else I would have if I were inclined to climb up onto the soapbox. In the end, I'm just glad I won't be reproducing, because nothing would be more disappointing than trying to raise a child to think and act for him- or herself only to have him/her succumb to societal pressure and objectify themselves right out of humanity.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 2:30 PMJust perfectly put... I agree totally.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 2:34 PMI share your worries, Tempest. Many young girls think they need to be skinny and sexy to be somebody. Self esteem tioday lies in big boobs despite sickly low BMI and showing off as much skin as possible.
It's very sad, and I wonder like you too how one could tell these young women that the high point of existence isn't causing as many hardons as possible. It could be a part of it if one really enhoys that, but it can't be the goal of so many young women's existence. Where are the parents? What did they tell these girls? Like "Elle Wood's" parents in Legally Blonde, who told Elle that she had been Miss this and that, and that law school was for people who were ugly, boring and serious?
I'm glad my mom always told me I could do anything. Not just get men excited, but also really DO things, be something, be someone. Short or long skirt, sexy or not, I know I'll always be so much more than a couple of square inches of bare skin, or a cleavage. I do honor myself, and pity those who don't feel that way about themselves. It can't be a life too happy, when reduced to a hole with some surrounding tissue like that...
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 12:35 PMYour post made me think of me and my sister. She's 4 years younger than me and, imo, missing in the common sense department (I sure hope her daughters make smarter decisions!).
When she was in High School and I was in college, she told me, very proudly, that she was more popular than I was. Not such a big deal, I always was and always will be a geek, freak, what have you. What got to me was that she wasn't really popular, she was the one to go to to get laid. Our uncle chaperoned the prom she attended and he told me (not my mom, would have probably just upset her more) that what she didn't wear couldn't really be called a dress.
Sex for popularity is nothing new. The new thing is that it's not as shunned in society now as it had been. Crotch shot the camera and flash your titties just like __________ and be a star too. I have no problem with flashing some skin, right time, right place and all that.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 1:16 AM"That true beauty doesn’t come from the exposure of skin, but the careful exposure of the self"
I love that sentence- Great thread, and wonderfully well-written, Tempest.
It makes me think of those Bratz dolls. Ugh. And it also makes me think of all those reality shows...oh, and the Girls Gone Wild commercials. Oh, nevermind... It's everywhere.
I think your article brings up a larger question, 'Why are we doing this to ourselves?'. Because it may not be you or me, but it is largely US. Our daughters, our sisters, our former selves.
We here may know how to 'honor thyself', but how do we pass the knowledge along? It makes me sad.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 3:31 AMThat was perfect and very well written. Thank you Tempest! I also agree with what everyone has said.
Now, being a teenager in the late 80's/early 90's (giving my age away here)... I did some modeling. The changing room was one BIG room with piles of everyones stuff. Everyone got changed together (guys and gals), minded they're own busness but lent a hand if someone needed it. It wasn't a big deal. It was just showing off the clothing... that was our job. Of course, I remember one outfit being a big sweat shirt and a short little mini. Thats right, only my long chicken legs showed. Whoohoo! Scandalous for the Victorian era!
I too watch tv shows (as with 2 kids I don't get out much) and just shake my head. I swear that girls only see themselves as sex objects. Why? Don't they know that they have other value besides arse and boobs? Obviously not... but I'm also not sure why they don't see this? I thought we were starting to make stronger young women?
and yes, being a mom of a 9 yr old daughter, I do worry about her. Nudity isn't a big deal at our house either. Yep.. playboys are in the bathroom... hidden by not very well with all the other magazines. Art books.. yep got those too on my book shelf. Oh heck... if your a mom, you know darn well that privacy is pratically nil. She has a little brother that she's helped with ever since he was born. Differences in the human body between male and female just isn't a big deal. If she has any questions, I try to answer them as best as possible. So far so good *knock on wood* but then she is naive. Don't know... maybe a healthy dose of the human body at a young age is what helps.
Maybe its just a trend were seeing and it will be changing soon (but hopefully not as prudish as the 1950's!) Guess we'll just have to try and educate our daughters and see what happens.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 8:34 AMI love that quote. Who spoke it/ wrote it?
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 8:56 AMIt is everywhere...and its bloody SAD.
Its also sad that SO many young girls think that they have to be a size 0 to be attractive.
my 9 YEAR OLD NIECE thinks she's fat. She's not. She's beautiful. (and I'm not just saying that because I'm biased.) She also happens to be starting to develope more than her classmates though...she has to wear a bra, and she's got a J lo booty.
I'm scared for her. I am...I worry that not only will her self image continue to diminish as the rest of the girls in her class are still really skinny and NOT developing yet (not their fault or hers that she is)...but I worry that the boys will start to notice and start the whole "piece of meat" thing.
I know that we need to educate our kids. And I know that my niece hears me, and her mom talking all the time about how we need to lose weight. She asked me about it the other day, she said "Lou Lou (she calls me Aunty Lou)...I think you're pretty, why do you want to lose weight?" And I told her the God's honest truth..."Honey...I'm pretty happy with the way I look...I just want my clothes to fit better again...I haven't been eating healthy, and its making me feel bad. But I don't want to get super skinny...you don't have to be skinny to be beautiful."
Sorry about the rant. I just worry. I don't want my beatufiul niece to be objectified...I want her to know her worth, and that she is beautiful the way she is....
Tempest, your article was beautifully written...
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Unsu...
Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 1:09 PMI think part of the problem is that many women and girls believe that the power to affect men is the only power women can have, and that the primary way to exercise that power is through adhering to prevailing beauty standards.
It doesn't help that when we do have images of powerful women, such as Hilary Clinton, the media is too busy talking about her appearance to focus on her many accomplishments.
I'm doing my part to correct this by writing biographies of women such as Mae Jemison, for teens. Young women need to know that there are more avenues to power than being voted "hottest ass" in Maxim magazine.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 7:16 AMtimes change, people dont change. Every year it will get more and more disgraceful. we are in the end of times..and the end will be just like the days of noah. Look at tv, every other channel theres some naked blond girl and they do nutting but cry and drink and dress in the sluttiest things moeny can buy...Thankfully everyone who has read this article is the true artist and we as belly dancers know better.
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Unsu...
Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 9:28 AM"That true beauty doesn’t come from the exposure of skin, but the careful exposure of the self."
And true terror. Exopsure of the self is a horrifying prospect for those who have grown accustomed to hiding it, bottling it, suffocating it and otherwise obfuscating who they are. The mentality might not have been purely about sex here, you said yourself that this was a mostly amateur thing. I wasn't there and even if I was I wouldn't have personally known those girls. But I know a Red Herring when I see one. It's the bait and switch... "I'll distract you with my body so you won't see my soul." Yeah there are a lot of shallow, vain strumplings in this world who do make it all about sex but I bet there might have been a little more going on with that than the surface let on.
~*Spoon*~ -
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 10:23 AM"strumplings" — I have got to steal that one. Great word!
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 11:58 AMSpoon- I like the way you think!
I've been trying to put together a really thoughtful repsonse about raising kids, sexuality, and self esteem. I may wind up tackling it as a blog subject once I get all my thoughts aligned on it. But I'll share it here as well.
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 12:11 PMooh...good point spoon! -
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 11:05 AMA very good point indeed. It gives me heart to read these posts and makes me have some hope for future generations if they could be raised by women like all of you. :-D -
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 2:55 PMi haven't read all of this thread, but just wanted to add:
when i was 18, i had the same idea. i believed at some idea that all i had to offer was youth and T&A.
i got this belief from our culture, especially our pop culture. now, i am part of the solution: a woman who's highly visilble (as a performer) and dedicated to displaying skill, dedication, and artistic interpretation. i ain't 18, either. i hope that this shows all women that there is more out there to femininity than we've been taught to believe.
sometimes it just takes experience to unlearn the crap you learn growing up. if you don't have coold parents, it may take you years to get the message that the feminine is worhwhile and beautiful just by BEING.
so i like to try to be part of the solution, not the problem. and to educate by example. -
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 2:30 PMMy thoughts exactly Maureen. I believe women throughout history have been taught to think of themselves as objects. As you say, it takes years to unlearn all of the messages that we are given as young people We all need to take responsibility for growing out of that . Being visible to other women, and sharing positive outlook and view is the way to go.
-Tayissa
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Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 2:55 PMThank you for your post. I'm also glad to hear that the girls who didn't show all did well in the contest. I'm sad to say that I was in one of those contests and apparently I was showing the wrong cleavage (a little chest) because the winners were wearing thongs! Needless to say I wasn't even close to winning =P
It seems that young women in society have gone backwards. Instead of showing their intelligence, they show their breasts in order to get respect. Unfortunately that does the opposite.
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Big ol' honkin' hallelujah from the choir
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 7:00 PMI knew I liked you from your discourse on the DVD. Now I'm ready to sign up for your Gothla Foreign Legion, if you want to start one :-).
I think part of the phenomenon you witnessed has to do with the corrupted definition of "sexy." In my humble opinion, one good way to describe "sexy" is that it's the tension between what you hide and what you reveal. Unfortunately, "sexy" got defined downward to mean what we all seem to consider "sleazy" or "cheap." There's a whole generation of women who think "stripping" is shaking your ass around a pole, naked, and doing X-rated tricks. They don't know that stripping in the burlesque style was witty and artistic and, well, sexy, instead of gynecological.
Keep up the good fight. -
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Unsu...
Re: Big ol' honkin' hallelujah from the choir
Wed, April 23, 2008 - 10:51 AMSo many great things have already been said, and I won't repeat. I will add this:
A muslim woman who dresses very modestly and wears a headscarf once asked an American who was trying to convince her to "liberate" herself by taking off the modest clothing to consider this:
How is an Islamic culture where women have some degree of choice about clothing/veiling (not Taliban afghanistan) so much more "repressive" to women (re appearance--I'm not referring to other aspects of a Muslim culture) than the US, where women's naked bodies are shoved at us all day, every day, and where so many women feel they are only as valuable as their boob size? How can it be honestly said that US women are more "liberated"? In which scenario is the female body more honored? (I know, this opens up a big can of worms, but it definately is food for thought).
You can be sexy in a turtleneck sweater.
That Rise of Raunch Culture book is interesting and worth reading. Why did "liberated" and even "feminist" get linked to acting like a slut/"female chauvenist pig"?
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Unsu...
Re: Article: "Honor Thyself"
Wed, April 23, 2008 - 10:52 AMTempest, have you considered sending your article to Gilded Serpent?