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One point that was brought up in the keeping bellydance in GBD was that gothic is an idea or concept. The thing with concepts is that everyone has their own idea of what that concept is. I've noticed this is particularly true about goths and defining what is gothic. That seems to be one of the most important things these days in the gothic community. Whenever goths gather it seems that the main topic is who is really a goth and who is a poser and then publically point out to those deemed to be a poser as to why they are not a goth.
When I ask someone about what makes a person a goth I usually get the response that being a goth means that you're dark and that by asking that question I'm showing that I'm a norm and will never understand what is means to be goth.
Given that, I'll give what I view as the gothic element in GBD. Now keep in mind that this is from a norm or poser as some would say who goes about in daylight, doesn't wear black all the time, is not a pagan, doesn't do psychaedelic drugs, doesn't like Sangria, isn't bisexual, is monogomous and doesn't participate in the goth piles, doesn't wear eyeliner and makeup all the time, don't dye my hair black, enjoys the company of all types of people, gets along with relatives, and uses his real name.
To me the gothic element is looking within yourself and seeing that a Ted Bundy or a Hannibal Lector lies in there beneath the surface. Then instead of rejecting that aspect of yourself you embrace it, not in the way of becoming someone like that but by integrating that into you and then letting the darker tragic part of it out while keeping the evil locked away. You can then see beauty in things such as HR Giger works and you can see things like Frankenstein and The Phantom of the Opera as tragedies rather than horror because you can understand and empathise with the creatures. You can see beauty in tragedy and that can be channeled into art and dance. The taking the tragic feelings, empathy, and sympathetic feelings that reside in all of us and projecting that into the dance is what I feel makes the gothic part of bellydance.
I'm probably going to be told like I usually do that that is so not gothic but like I said gothic is an idea and ideas differ from person to person. What do some of the rest of you see as the gothic element in gothic bellydance? I know its probably too much to ask but please don't rip others definitions to shreds. By keeping an open mind and not dismissing others ideas immediately we gain a greater understanding of ourself and other and we are enriched by that.
When I ask someone about what makes a person a goth I usually get the response that being a goth means that you're dark and that by asking that question I'm showing that I'm a norm and will never understand what is means to be goth.
Given that, I'll give what I view as the gothic element in GBD. Now keep in mind that this is from a norm or poser as some would say who goes about in daylight, doesn't wear black all the time, is not a pagan, doesn't do psychaedelic drugs, doesn't like Sangria, isn't bisexual, is monogomous and doesn't participate in the goth piles, doesn't wear eyeliner and makeup all the time, don't dye my hair black, enjoys the company of all types of people, gets along with relatives, and uses his real name.
To me the gothic element is looking within yourself and seeing that a Ted Bundy or a Hannibal Lector lies in there beneath the surface. Then instead of rejecting that aspect of yourself you embrace it, not in the way of becoming someone like that but by integrating that into you and then letting the darker tragic part of it out while keeping the evil locked away. You can then see beauty in things such as HR Giger works and you can see things like Frankenstein and The Phantom of the Opera as tragedies rather than horror because you can understand and empathise with the creatures. You can see beauty in tragedy and that can be channeled into art and dance. The taking the tragic feelings, empathy, and sympathetic feelings that reside in all of us and projecting that into the dance is what I feel makes the gothic part of bellydance.
I'm probably going to be told like I usually do that that is so not gothic but like I said gothic is an idea and ideas differ from person to person. What do some of the rest of you see as the gothic element in gothic bellydance? I know its probably too much to ask but please don't rip others definitions to shreds. By keeping an open mind and not dismissing others ideas immediately we gain a greater understanding of ourself and other and we are enriched by that.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 12:53 AMFrank, if you're not goth, I'm not goth.
And if I'm not considered goth, well...I don't really care, since the "fault" doesn't have to be on me.
Maybe the pretentious teenbrainers who feel they both have the divine answer and feel that they are superiour enough to judge me - and feel the need to, for some strange reason unknown to me - just lack the degree of perception of depth that they need to view what I do, say or think is goth. I will never know...maybe I am, by Universal gothic standards, a poser, maybe the "fault" IS on me...but who are anyone really to judge, myself included?
Just because I am not able to take in another person's view and feel of goth doesn't mean it is not there.
It may be that I am just to much of a linear thinker to grasp it.
On the other hand...Ha...what I'm trying to say is I really don't care.
The most "know-it-all-judging/gossipping" dancers can get from me is a raised eyebrow and a sigh.
Of course, I almost never perform, and when I do it's always been in cabaret settings, where all I hear is the jaws clanging when they hit the tables in front of the audience, so I have not been on the hurtful end of that truely nasty whip of judging that I hear can sometimes unfold itself on the "real" goth dance scene. Maybe I won't be so CCC about it then. We'll see when time comes. ;)
Good post, Frank
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 4:08 AMI haven't any idea what is supposed to make a person goth. All I know is what I enjoy wearing and what I enjoy doing. I've been a freak for as long as I can remember. For the most part I'm pretty lazy about my outter darkness and that lazyness transfers over to my non-desire to judge other gothy types. Whatever floats your boat... just don't hug me. I self identify as a steelpunk goth; I'm more of a Renaissance-ish and dark Medieval goober. I'm a gamer too, the kind who collects fantasy swords and black dice.
I do not like Sangria either. I prefer sugar free red bull but since I've been Caffiene free since October I've been a "bottled water" goth. Back when I was wearing white for a year I felt like a Navy Seal riding a pink scooter to work. Thanks to that little experience I've managed to adopt a very secure outlook on my gothulinity. I mostly admire drag-goths. One day I shall get THAT good with the hair and make up but until then as far as I'm concerned my fellow gothy types should just be pleased I cared enough to dress up at all. I still wear the white Docs though... I probably will until they fall off my dead rotten feet.
I don't care what other gothy types do, wear or dance to because its not like I know whats going on inside their heads. Unless something is just blatantly ungothy it doesn't burst my bubble. Gods knows I've done and worn some weird shit in my lifetime and I'm sure I've been called ungothy before, just not to my face yet. I might not have a solid idea of what goth is all its glory, phases and shades but I can tell when someone isn't even trying and that's far more insulting than someone trying and not doing the best job.
~*Spoon*~ -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 5:49 PM*nods*
*adds 'steampunk' to the ever-growing chat-list*
There's a point where being so explicitly goth becomes a self-parody. Fine if that is what one is going for, and fits the context. To me, the general concept of 'goth' doesn't lend itself to a uniform.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 6:34 AMShould everyone, who dance Bharatanatyam, be an Indian? Should everyone, who dance Flamenco, be from Spain? Should everyone, who dance Ghawazee, be an Egyptian? I think, the prettiest thing about being ghotic bellydancer, is that you can express your darkest side on scene and don't need to wear black (and dye hair, and love Sangria, etc. etc.) in your everyday life.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 7:22 AMWhen I first started teaching GBD workshops and doing shows outside of my area, I was absolutely shocked that people were actually worried whether or not I would deem their performances "goth enough". Who am I to say whether your performance was goth enough, if you sincerely believed and worked hard to create was gothic bellydance? And there's people who say that *I*'m not goth enough? (whatever the fuck that means). Of course, those people tend to spend a bit too much time themselves worrying about what other people think, which to me, is the antithesis of goth. The Gothic subculture allows for so much room under it's umbrella that it's impossible to say "this is Goth."
As I have said many times, on here, on my sites, in my workshops - I don't believe you must identify yourself as goth to perform Gothic Bellydance. I DO believe it is a culture that can be studied, just as you such study Egypt if you do Egyptian BD, Lebanon for Lebanese, history of Iran & Iraq for Persian Dance, etc. There's art, music, literature, and history to be considered. And so if you're going to do a GBD performance, you should take the time to study what you're presenting.
What I don't support is "bandwagoning" for the sake (heh, I first typed stake) of trend. "Oh, that looks cool, let's do it!" and then 5 minutes later "oh, look at THAT, let's do that!". One of the biggest laughs I've had was some dancers who were upset that my "Dancing Darkly: Intro to GBD" workshop didn't present a ready-made choreography for them (and the description was pretty damn clear about what is being presented - it's a lot of theory and practice of those concepts), cause they just wanted to add a GBD choreography to their list. That's really not the point of GBD, to just copy something else. Just b/c you learned someone else's choreography doesn't make you a GBDer. Just as if I learned a Bollywood choreography, it doesn't mean I understand it completely or could call myself a Bollywood dancer.
The other thing I take issue with is people doing absolutely crazy shit that has nothing to do with Goth or Bellydance under the title of GBD, just as an excuse. But I think I covered that under the other topic already ;)
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 11:48 AMvery cool topic...
and I don't know if I totally agree with your inner hannibal lector theory... why? because I'm made of sugar and spice every thing nice and dream of only bunnies at night.
he he he.
People have been calling me goth for a very long while (well ... for a 20 something its a long while) even when I was in a private school (faith based) I was referred to as that... funny because the most 'goth' thing I did... was wear chokers. Black chokers, one black ribbon, one black ribbon with a cross, one black very very simple lace on (none of those big monster ones that are remensicent of the Victorian era or Dracula's collars)... and some how that made me 'goth'
but after I left college (where i was frequently accused of being goth... lesbian... and a whore-straight whore mind you, monogomous lesbian... ) and I started really finding myself as a dancer I realized that 'goth' genre really appealed to my soul.
Not because I like black ( I do) or where chokers (I do) and not because I have strong Christian background and was subverted as a child... but because there is a side of me thats soulful... and wants to share its burden whatever it is,
it is that reaching into your soul and looking. All the 'goths' that I know... are the funnest people I know... wicked sense of humor but have the ability to really take the importance out of life and themselves.
I'm a baby gothling... and never will be a mover and shaker in that world, but I truly enjoy the dance because its making that connection from your soul, to your body and to the music and the music becomes your vessel to share with the world what your soul is. least thats what it seems to me! -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 1:05 PMI like your post, Basha.
Nearly all of the items in Frank's list of things that make him not goth apply to me as well, except that I pretty much do wear black most of the time. Oh, and not only do I not like sangria but I am downright allergic to it, as it usually has oranges in it. And I have zero interest in Ted Bundy or Hannibal Lector, though vampires are pretty nifty ;-) Just goes to show how hard it is to create a list of what makes a person goth!
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 2:41 PMMy take on this is, folks who don't consider themselves to be goth but discover their inner gothiness and are able to express it in bellydance are just as goth as the oldskool club denizens dressed to the nines in Catherine Coatney and DIY Victorian glory. You don't have to like a specific list of things, and only the things on that list, to be goth. Most often, it seems that the ones who are attracted to this form of bellydance who didn't consider themselves to be goth before, well, they allow that aspect of their personality to bloom, and start exploring the gothic subculture more fully.
There are gothic archetypes, and if you resonate to them, and try and communicate these archetypes in your dance, then you're goth. The last time I did a solo dance, I tried to communicate being a "mad Victorian vampiric virgin/slut." I was dancing to Rasputina, after all.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, January 22, 2009 - 4:58 PMIt has been a long time since I was in the Goth scene. Back then it was a attitude of rebellion against political and society conformity. I left the scene when it started to be about ball gags and spankings. I think now it has splintered off into alot of diffrent things. But it seems to be less disgruntal against society than when I was hitting the clubs. That was back in the 80's.
I do have to say that is funny to me the judgemental part of some Goths. Like if you don't dress the part, you don't have a dark side.
I got a bunch of attitude from a girl in a club one time when I dropped in from work wearing a suit. I just was like look Honey I was wearing that same outfit and hairstyle 20 years ago. Get over yourself -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 2:58 AM"Back then it was a attitude of rebellion against political and society conformity"
Being almost 41 and much older brothers, this made smile.... EVERY generation has non conformists.
Let's see, hippy, punk, goth, beatnick, tons I can't think of this early.
So, it's an attitude, a place inside. I prefer the look of the dark, the mystery of it, if you will.
Okay, need more coffee....
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 11:22 AMWhat is Goth to you? It is what you think it is for sure. Who gives a ploop if your dark enough or this or that. The "goths" I know around here skulk about at night once a week or as occassion calls for Goth night, who knew they liked Sangria? I didn't - the "goth club" we have here doesn't serve it, they serve red wine out of a little bottle, LOL - if I'm lucky i drink it in a champagne flute. Most Goths I know are come as you are, who gives a crap (okay i do admit if one came to goth night dressed in Hollister or Abercrombie, they would get a dirty look or two, heh). Maybe goth is more a term like misfit, outcast. Everyone is goth really or no one is goth. Like another said it's whether you embrace it. So you wear all black and look morbid, does that define goth? I hope not. It's more a subculture like punk to me. When it comes to goth dance moves, for me I take bellydance moves and try to combine them with an element from either music, a movie, an era, etc... to make them more goth or avant garde. One example specifically I use is the praying mantis (yes, the bug), I study it watch it and become it, but in bellydance form, which is not to say I dress in green and kill my mate, but the movements, the attitude, the story. Does that make sense, probably not, I'm no good with these forums. Um anyway this is coming from someone who considers her self a rockagothyvamparetpyronerdpunkiac. Say that 3 times fast!
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 6:30 PMI'm coming out of "lurk" mode for this because this is something that drives me bonky :)
I am a happy goth.
I am a tan goth.
I am an LDS goth.
I am a mother of 3, happily married to a man I adore (who is a 6 1/2 foot tall computer geek) goth.
I am an old goth.
I very rarely get told that I'm not a goth because of these reasons. However, I DO get told this. I have been wearing straight black for longer then many goths have been alive (over 20 years now of having a monochromatic wardrobe). When I dance solo, I like doing darker songs, but I love delivering them with a sassy, quasi-giggly quality. I know that this annoys some of the more "serious" goths, but I love it, it's who I am. I find joy in darkness, I always have. This means that I can find humor in tragedy, find positives in negative occurances, and I adore the beauty of starkness.
I think that being goth can have some spectacular sub-genres. However, many times, lets face it, its just easier to say "Im goth". It's an umbrella that offers shelter to many different types. If someone tells me I'm not goth, it doesnt bug me. I just figure that in 5 years, THEY won't till be goth....but I will ;) -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 7:50 PMWell, I think most people who probably judge others harshly are probably trying too hard to be a stereotype, instead of trying to be who they are. It's also a sign of deep insecurity in oneself to put down everyone else. And I'm guessing that many of the club goths are pretty young? I think you're right when you say they probably won't be the same in 5 years.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Sun, January 25, 2009 - 11:47 AMThere is a real reason why the WIG (What Is Goth) question is banned on many goth posting boards and groups!!! It's practically impossible to define. It's very easy to say what ***definitively*** isn't goth, the Olsen twins, Chavs, etc etc, but the other way round and when you are getting to the fringes, practically impossible to say what is and this seems to go for GBD just as much.
When it comes down to it, it's art. It's not a science.
To give an analogy some musical tracks make it, some define a genre or an era or a feeling, or just stand out as a good track, others don't quite hit the mark, some are frankly rubbish. Except for the most banal and generic songs, which are banged out by big corporations to hit a market for a short period (think "Christmas tracks"), it either has it or it doesn't, if it's too weird and innovative, it won't get there (yet), if it's too much like everything else that's around, it'll float about but won't stand out, if it's crap, people won't take it seriously.
Goth works the same. It's art, you can't go to Hot Topic, buy everything that fits and assume you'll look cool and gothic. You'll look like you went to Hot Topic and bought everything in the shop. Goth bellydance, you can't wear all black, float about looking tragic, and assume it's going to look gothic, or be good bellydance. You'll either have got the ambience or you won't, and if your dance is bad, you'll look like an idiot whatever. The best way to do it is simply to practice practice practice (which is hte stage I'm at!) and immerse yourself in gothic things (not exclusively obviously, most of us have real lives and sensible jobs as well in order to buy the pretty clothes and kitty food) and get a feel for things. Pay attention to styles in clothes, design, music, dance, literature, etc. Goth is a HUGE subculture, and there's many associated subcultures with a lot of cross over (New Romantic, Gothic Lolita, Steampunk etc).
For the people who sit around posing and bitching, well, yes it happens. However, the only way you can prevent it, is have a selection of good friends who are willing to take a stand and not participate in the bitching, supportive people on your scene, good friendly networking, and if all else fails (and it's possible in your area) find a different club where the people aren't as unpleasant.
For (particularly UK) people who are into GBD but aren't familiar with the mainstream goth scene, if you are interested a good place to start is the gfaq.ogive.org/ which is the UK Goth FAQ, which has been going for years as a sideline from the Usenet group uk.people.gothic. -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, February 19, 2009 - 9:50 AMLike Mary Little Goth said, "Not again!"
I hope Frank that this thread has answered some of your questions/ponderings about it. You will also note that the majority of people on here do not define themselves solely as "Goth" per se. I will say this, if you DO define yourself by a subculture, you are asking for problems not so much from those in the "scene" but with yourself. People change, and evolve. So do social scenes. Life changes and your own agenda about who you are is enough to keep you busy than worrying about what is Goth, or GBD. I 'm not trying to admonish you, my exasperation lies with the fact that people keep asking it. But that's unlikely to change anytime soon.
What I would suggest is that you become a participant in the Bellydance community in general, not just GBD, if actually learning to dance isn't your thing, there's drumming, DJ'ing, starting up a fansite, etc.
Louis Armstrong was once asked to define Jazz. his reply was, "If you have to ask what Jazz is you'll never know."
same with Goth/GBD.
That's my take.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Mon, January 26, 2009 - 5:34 PMTwo elements that I think are central to my interpretation of goth are: finding beauty in darkness, and creativity. Within that, there are many roads to Rome. :) -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, January 27, 2009 - 5:00 AMOoooh I like you.
~*Spoonicus*~
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, February 4, 2009 - 7:00 PMTo add to what Frank and Spoon said,
It has to have a morbid sense of humor...
Is your lemonade made from real lemons? And Wednesday says, "Are your cookies made from real Girlscouts?"
What are you going as for Halloween. "A homicidal maniac. We look like everyone else."
My mom was on her deathbed, and my mom and dad, brother and I sang HeeHaw's "Gloom, Despair, and Agony", and we laughed until we cried, then sang it somemore.
So, if your GBD makes me laugh, inside or outside, and it's just a little twisted dark, then it's goth to me. Ariellah is a prime example.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, February 17, 2009 - 4:00 PM"When I ask someone about what makes a person a goth I usually get the response that being a goth means that you're dark "
i strongly disagree.
when it comes to physical appearances since ppl judge those first...you can have long blone hair, blue eyes, pink lipstick, khaki's and a pastel blue tank top..and still be gothic to me.
goth to me is a state of mind...its being more open...its being very expressive and craetive..most goth people are either dancers, painters, musicians, poets, just something creative in general. they look at things from more perspectives than than the "normal" person would, they dont look at a dead rose and go omg throw it away...they appreciate the beauty that exists in life..and in death..for death is to many renewal. yes i konw im stereotypical, i save all of my flowrs..i have dead roses from years ago lol.
when someone immediately judges and says ohh your not goth or he's a poser....a true goth to me is articulate, and although we can be over emotional or have a flair for drama haha we should not jump to judge..someone who judges like that, especially based off of looks...is only insecure within themself.
now granted i say you can wear khaki's and be blonde and honestly....you'll never see me in khaki's or with blonde hair haha...i like my tats and piercings and red hair , and i tend to wear a lot of black and red...lol...but that is not what makes me "goth" wht makes me goth in my opinion is how i love to use my emotions to express to others...for example, im sure all of you know ariellah..what i like about her the most is the fact she pours emotion and drama into her performance...that is goth to me. you can get all done up in fishnets and dreads and tats and gothy boots....and not be the slightest bit goth and just radiate preppy. nothing wrong wtih preppy..just another type of person.
its on the inside is my overall point...its mental and emotional. we just happy to feel free about expressing it thru our physical looks.
i do apologize for making this so long -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, February 17, 2009 - 4:46 PMMonique said, "when it comes to physical appearances since ppl judge those first...you can have long blone hair, blue eyes, pink lipstick, khaki's and a pastel blue tank top..and still be gothic to me. "
'goth is a state of mind'
You are describing my daughter and her state of mind. :-)
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, February 17, 2009 - 7:24 PM"By the time you read this I will have jumped" *scribble/scratch* "plummeted from the Winter River Bridge."
-Beetleguice
That level of gallows humor embodies gothic for me!
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, March 24, 2009 - 4:56 PMActually Frank - for a "poser" you have hit the nail pretty much on the head and I am a pink pyjama wearing goth, have been since my teens. I would even go as far to say that if you feel the need to tell others they arent goth because they dont wear makeup all the time, dont wear black everyminute of every day - then they themselves arent the real deal.
My gothic friends dont tell others they arent goth - instead they let them be. They come from all walks of life from married mothers with kids to high flying corporate people. They have different lifestyles. I find its the younger teenage "goths" who are judgemental of others ( which in fact is not a true goth trait). Im an older goth and those I associate with are too.
Gothic comes from within - its not what you wear, the colour of your hair and the makeup on your face - its about facing and embracing that which mainstream society is affraid of. Wearing black and lots of makeup is a by product of your tastes and veiws on music art literature and film.
And for the record eventhough I love black clothing (90% of my wardrobe is black) . I wear pink pyjarmies, Currently have bright red hair, dont wear makeup all the time except when I go out. -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, March 24, 2009 - 4:58 PMOh and what about Albino goth and raver goths? They dont wear black
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Tue, March 24, 2009 - 6:37 PMThis is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen outside of discussions by teenagers. If you want to do it, do it, but keep in mind that people who actually identify with being goth may criticize you if you do not do your research, because it's sort of like dressing goth for Halloween. It's insulting to people who take it seriously if you don't respect it. I think that's all you really have to keep in mind.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, March 25, 2009 - 10:45 AMThey've been discussing meta-GOTH on news://alt.gothic since the early 90's. The current consensus (last revision in 2000) can be found at www.darkwave.org.uk/faq/ag/#Section:3
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, March 25, 2009 - 11:00 AMI have been in the scene (bd and goth), and for some reason I don't really tire on the WIG question or the "what really defines classic bellydance" question either. Probablly becuase I love to read/hear everyone's opions and ideas. Sometimes you can really understand someone by little things they have to say. But on with the post at hand.
To each her own on what GBD is. I tell my students (who 99% of them would NOT be concidered goth) that GBD is about thematics (i am a 3rd generation romani and belly dancer and was raised that you ALWAYS tell a story in your dance). To tell a story that make people think. I definately love the vampy stuff but adore something deeper. A piece we are doing now is the "Asylum" (about victorian women put into the asylums due to their strong nature and non-submissive personalities) which in turn relates to women's issues today (very along the lines of this thread actually). But, one song we are doing is about staring into the mirror at your alternate self. Seeing the crazy, evil, vindictive, rancid person that lives in us all and the one staring in the mirror trying NOT to be her yet embracing her rather than running scared.
I believe that GBD should focus on a story (just as much as "why" we are goth rather than "what" is goth) and that story should make you as the dancer think and in turn taking your audience on a journey. The importance lies on what you as a dancer are trying to portray, NOT what the audience percieves (again, due to individual perceptions). It can be cookey, cutesy, dark, mysterious, sensual (and dare I say it, Sexual), vampy, etc.
I do not believe you should be goth to dance GBD but I strongly encourage dancers to research what they are portraying so as not to look like a complete dolt. Don't just put on fangs (even if they are well made) and dance to Transylvania Concubine for the hell of it (that's for halloween) but DO put on fangs, dance to Transylvanian Concubine and dance about the uncontrollable drive one has for blood (the blood could represent any sin) and how sexually charged it could be (don't go and hump the chalice now).
Now, I regress.
Thank you for the post, It has been most enlightening to read how people react. -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, March 25, 2009 - 11:01 AM"I have been in the scene (bd and goth), and for some "
Er, meant to say
"I have been in the scene (bd and goth) for quite a long time now,"
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, March 25, 2009 - 3:43 PMAh, the eternal question of "what counts as goth?". I very much believe that "goth" is something that is almost impossible to clearly define as it means different things to different people. I've been told many times that I'm not goth, purely because for years I worked in a job where I was not ALLOWED to dye my hair or wear much makeup, etc. So for me, goth became an attitude, it was my personality more than my appearance. I eventually earned the nickname "closetgoth", though I often refer to myself as Just Eclectic just to save argument. The beauty of GBD for me is that it can be almost anything you want it to be. For me, that's dark and sinsister with a playful edge. :) -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Wed, April 1, 2009 - 2:06 PMI like your term "closetgoth" ;) My husband is a "stealthgoth" -- he's been a longtime fan of the music & aesthetic and spent a good deal of his youth hanging out in goth clubs, but has never felt the need to dress goth.
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, April 2, 2009 - 7:24 AMYay! Another Closet Goth!
My troupemates just had tshirts done up for each of us, with the troupe name on the back and a descriptive on the front. What does mine say?
Closet Goth.
:0)
Closet Goths of the world...lurk. -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, April 2, 2009 - 8:09 AMI have a few skeletons in my closet, but no Goths. :-) -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, April 2, 2009 - 5:08 PMwhy not? if you tie them up and ball-gag 'em they kick and moan alot. quite entertaining to see the look on people's faces when they come over to visit.
Guest: "what is that noise?"
You: "it is just my closet goth"
Guest: "closet goth?!"
You: "yes, more entertaining then skeletons" -
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Re: Being gothic in gothic bellydance?
Thu, April 2, 2009 - 5:33 PMHehe, skeletons can make a lot of noise, too.
I was ten and my brother 6 when we learned this from my dad.
"Dammit! Jesus Christ! You two are making more noise than a couple of skeletons having intercourse on a hot tin roof."
Trouble with goths is you have to feed them and clean out their litter box. Not so with skeletons.
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