http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a80d4dde-597c-4cf2-9b99-bbf073ba051d Yep...always someone to tick off....people just become of afraid of what they don't understand or change.....those who have shared and taught us, we do feel a deep kinship with.....so it's always a bit of soul searching when we step out from our usual realm.....that door really should not close, but...if it does, another one opens. Your not betraying anyone but yourself if you don't give it decent try....seperation of names is good....we all understand the use of different names in a subculture of anykind....Have a wonderful time! Adhara Mercy Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:37:41 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a80d4dde-597c-4cf2-9b99-bbf073ba051d Adhara 2007-11-22T15:37:41Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#16b15672-7a3a-45b1-87ab-437f4600b74f As far as names go--start anything with "Miss" or "Mistress" or "Madam". It always gives whatever you choose for a name a nice old burlesque-y style, and it also seperates you from the croud: a dominant possition elevates you from a stripper in the minds of your audience. This is important with burlesque as the dance style is NOT about stripping, but adding public humor and art into what is usually considered "behind closed doors" activities. Do what you want--but do it with dignity. I also enjoy burlesque, and dislike when I see dancers whom just get on stage to tear their clothes off. And I have danced burlesque, and never once taken ANYTHING off my body. Show the world who you are--but be prepared if they don't like it. You already know that this is a touchy subject for belly dancers everywhere, and that many of us have fought for our respectability in the "traditional" and "purist" community. The BIGGEST road-bump you have to overcome is the fact that you will be connecting belly dance with sex--something that many dancers have worked hard for years to seperate because of reactions from uneducated masses. However, everyone seems to forget that bd is the dance of a woman--and no woman is a woman without sex. Hell, without it, none of us would be here. So cancel your piece if you want--art is for you but art is for your audience. If you totally only wanted to do it for yourself, don't perform on stage--perform in your closet at home. But if you go ahead with it--know that you will piss people off as they see you assumingly destroy years of hard work and reputation. Don't be suprised if you get a bad response from other dancers (the audience will love you though). And don't cry to your friends when you get dragged into another belly war: that's your price to pay for being unique. Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:58:24 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#16b15672-7a3a-45b1-87ab-437f4600b74f Sanguine 2007-11-22T14:58:24Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#5e7a06db-d53d-44d6-86e9-d377350492ca My teacher encourages my style, she even compliments it. The debate about mixing burlesque with bellydance was what got her. I've learned alot from her, though we dance very different styles, I like having alot to draw from. My other teacher is more tribal/fusion, is in full support of the burlesque (even taught me some new moves) and I use her combinations in my own acts. I'm definitely all about embracing my inner evil. Sometimes I get sensitive though, my downfall :( I am in the F**k em mode though now. Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:47:17 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#5e7a06db-d53d-44d6-86e9-d377350492ca Kelly 2007-11-22T13:47:17Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#8ff85c5e-eae9-45d0-9c34-c5132276645b I love both my teachers, and my style is gothic and that is certanly not theirs. And if they don't accept my style, their problem, excuse me for not copying my teacher. I think they would actually encourage my own style when they find out... Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:29:37 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#8ff85c5e-eae9-45d0-9c34-c5132276645b Tink 2007-11-22T12:29:37Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#2f4ada56-9983-4df6-ba9e-c4df16e45273 High Fives for Muh Jaded Sista! The sooner we all embrace our inner evil the sooner we can all get on with life. Up until you recognize and come to peace with the fact that you and everyone you know is a bastard to some extent you're just living in a pretentous little dream world. Might as well just take the red pill, look in the mirror and repeat, "I am the root of all evil," then shrug and walk away. Then you get to sit on the little red sofa with the rest of us Jaded Princesses. ;-) ~*Gen the L7 Root of All Evil*~ Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:44:16 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#2f4ada56-9983-4df6-ba9e-c4df16e45273 Poisoned 2007-11-22T11:44:16Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#d889d009-bf95-4e1e-bb62-d1023e21fe45 Zoe also does both.... If people give you a hard time for expressing yourself in two dances styles SEPERATELY, then tell them to get BENT! Farhana is incredible and I love her "F 'Em" attitude.... I wish people would see life is too short to lambast one another for dancing burlesque *GASP!* along with bellydance...People use the argument "We want people to RESPECT us" but frankly until people SEE what you do bellydance wise, they still think of it as stripping..whatevah... go for it and post pics..lol Obi the Jaded Wed, 21 Nov 2007 20:44:28 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#d889d009-bf95-4e1e-bb62-d1023e21fe45 ObSiDiA 2007-11-21T20:44:28Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4f959b7b-614d-4f70-9c17-eb379e0c6502 I think when people say it is a reflection on them they are being a little too audacious. Your enjoying two different dance styles (and/or performing it) has no bearing on anyone but you. You are the only person who should care. Both are elegant, empowering, sexy (oh dare i say it), and enthralling. I say have your cake and eat it too love. I love both and perform both. Around here some dancers find it distasteful, but to each her own i suppose. Have fun!! Wed, 21 Nov 2007 20:05:06 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4f959b7b-614d-4f70-9c17-eb379e0c6502 Saz'hrah 2007-11-21T20:05:06Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#f3a93583-39a2-46d5-9411-6e9ac3d9da53 I often times make alussions to my living a double/tripple/quadruple life through different stage names, pen names and societal personalities. It happened for me as an accident and when it caught up with me all at once it was a little shocking but everything has evened out. So long as you can keep track of yourselves and your many personality exploits... you should be cool. ;-) I'm glad you got a little supportive note from your instructor. If you want to see something funny... see if you can find all the editorial comments on Princess Farhana's "Coming Out" article. Whoooooo boy! I hadn't seen that much stink over something until the Bellynesian War on Bhuz! (Don't anybody get that started or I will tear out your eye balls!) Good luck, have fun, be a lady and do what you do best. If anybody gets in your way it's not because they have any concern for your reputation... it's more likely that they just don't want you to succeed. ;-) All's Fair in Art and War Baby! ~*Gen*~ Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:33:49 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#f3a93583-39a2-46d5-9411-6e9ac3d9da53 Poisoned 2007-11-20T19:33:49Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a056bd94-f3e9-4507-9b49-0e4dc6af4b38 I am definitely going to pursue the burlesque I am not usually one who follows rules, at all, so the fact that this bothers me is kind of surprising. I guess I am having a 'sensitive moment' hahaha I just got a nice message from my teacher , giving me her support...it does feel better. Good, no VERY good point about burlesque being the first cabaret, it also seems that I've run across that Gilded Serpent article, I think i bookmarked it. off to look...... Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:50:04 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a056bd94-f3e9-4507-9b49-0e4dc6af4b38 Kelly 2007-11-20T01:50:04Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4e8b05d0-5ba0-4974-bd31-868c7f353662 Hmm I myself have done both since 1990. And what do you define s burlesque I grew up with and around both type of dacers. Believe it or not THAT is where Cabaret came from. I myself am working on a piece that isreal cabaret (not shiny bellly dace ) It is a mix of theater ance/jazz cmpy cbaret that.. is what cabaret or bulesque is. Not about taking off your clothing... So if your worried about people deininbg it as that tell them Burlesque is REAL CABARET trust me I know I grew up in it.... furthernore be true to who ou are donot mold yourslf according to what people want you or think you should be. Being different is what makes us unique.... Break barriers it is what gives you your name your own idenity. Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:21:28 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4e8b05d0-5ba0-4974-bd31-868c7f353662 $item.owner.firstName 2007-11-20T01:21:28Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#fd181125-9f2c-44b4-a2c2-d9376d7e3e20 Princess Farhana has an article about this topic on the Gilded Serpent I believe. I don't have the link, but you should check it out if you come across it. Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:20:21 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#fd181125-9f2c-44b4-a2c2-d9376d7e3e20 $item.owner.firstName 2007-11-20T01:20:21Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4acdc538-faf2-431d-bfa4-bbea76d9c459 I've actually come up with an idea that involves a whole different name and persona, I even have skit ideas. That will seperate the Burlesque from the bellydance so I feel much better. Thank you Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:04:24 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#4acdc538-faf2-431d-bfa4-bbea76d9c459 Kelly 2007-11-18T16:04:24Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#1932921b-9a50-4792-97ea-4b1de462d8b0 This is your art- do not let it be ruled by anyone. Push the boundaries and express yourself. We would never grow or expand without breaking the rules. ;) Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:25:28 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#1932921b-9a50-4792-97ea-4b1de462d8b0 Bronwen 2007-11-18T15:25:28Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#903ce196-d697-4716-a279-ddfb2a6c2f95 Well, it is a relief to be getting so many positive responses. I had all but decided to offer my services as a fire performer ans perhaps as a bellydancer, but not do the burlesque. I think I'll try to contact Princess Farhana to see what the fallout was like for her...it's not like I am some big name bellydancer, I think I should be fine doing my thing. I would also NEVER wear a full out bellydancing costume, not even a bra. The belly-wars sre alive everywhere I think...I think it is silly, can't we all coexist? Can't we all support one another...I realize that is my naive little desire. I am sad to know the price I will have to pay in order to be able to enjoy burlesque as well as bellydance. Of course bellydance always comes first for me. So, since my dance and fire name is PyroKitty, I suppose it WOULD be a good idea to create a new persona as a burlesque dancer. I'd also love to hear from anyone who doesn't agree with the above ideas. Oh, if anyone has any good persona/name ideas, please message me... Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:10:33 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#903ce196-d697-4716-a279-ddfb2a6c2f95 Kelly 2007-11-18T01:10:33Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#0d5d70e3-df7e-40dc-b733-5eb0d8a06635 The first big name dancer to come out as a side Burlesque dancer in an attempt to improve its image to the BD scene was Princess Farhana and she did this less than five years ago. It hasn't had enough time to become really acceptable but some of the big names are doing a lot to bring it more to the forefront (with a really mixed response). A LOT of dancers don't like the association. I supsect that most who don't approve don't really know what it is but of course there are plenty who know fully well what it entails and don't like it anyway. If you're mentor doesn't like it... you can try to bring her around but you may not be able to. If you can't don't sweat it, you pay her for her dance instruction not her lessons in morality. Instructors may forget that in the end they are not your Mommy, they provide a service and to discriminate in that service isillegal. ~*Gen*~ Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:53:10 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#0d5d70e3-df7e-40dc-b733-5eb0d8a06635 Poisoned 2007-11-18T00:53:10Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a383efbf-35a4-44f8-a0c2-a23383157959 I agree with everyone so far. You should do whatever you want. There will always be some person to criticize you and question you, but what do they know if they can't separate the styles of dance anyway? ;p So, as long as you clearly separate the styles, you should be fine. Don't pay attention to what others have to say. :-) ~ I personally love burlesque and bellydance; except bellydance a little than the other. ;p ~ Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:05:19 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a383efbf-35a4-44f8-a0c2-a23383157959 April T. 2007-11-17T22:05:19Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#23583fd7-55f4-4db9-9cc0-18ff97428418 You're the artist, so it's your choice to perform however you want to perform. I think it's great to be involved with all kinds of styles of dance - use whatever influences you and whatever you enjoy doing - either full-on one style or fused. However, if you're unsure whether or not a certain style or concept would fit in with a specific show, ask the organizer what they think. They might like having the variety, or they might think that something too outside of a particular style might not be cohesive with the theme they want to present. It's not necessarily a judgement of what you want to do, but more of a "does this fit the concept of the show". Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:43:24 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#23583fd7-55f4-4db9-9cc0-18ff97428418 Friga 2007-11-17T20:43:24Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#019e8aff-cb9b-4ab9-9147-e7266b2ff399 I am talking about *seperately* choosing to enjoy two different styles of dance. If you do them separately I don't see the problem. I mean most of us here have other interests besides belly dance including : yoga, martial arts, ballroom dance, music,etc. Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:48:01 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#019e8aff-cb9b-4ab9-9147-e7266b2ff399 erika 2007-11-17T02:48:01Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a885f239-d322-4e41-9748-b4879a33b5f0 I think it's important for you to meet your own needs as an artist. And I think it's important for your teacher to support you, even if she doesn't agree with you adding burlesque to your repertoire. I'm not saying she's a bad teacher or is wrong to have the feelings she has, BUT perhaps you can discuss the issue with her further to see if you can do anything to make her feel better about it. However, when it comes down to it *insert my first sentence here*. You might consider putting her mind at ease by using a stage name that is obviously separate from the name you use in belly dance. And styling your costuming so that you look completely different from your belly dance persona might help too. The belly dance community is a harsh one indeed. So you have to ask yourself; is adding burlesque to your repertoire worth the fallout you will get from the belly dance community? Does the community influence how you feel about yourself as an artist that much or do you feel passionate enough about burlesque that you can handle it? There is a nearby troupe that does belly dance and burlesque-y type stuff and they are pulling it off quite well, I think. They go by Anaya Gypsy and are based in Cincinatti. Princess Farhana also performs burlesque, so you might consider trying to contact her to see if she has any input. Not sure any of this will help! Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:24:13 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#a885f239-d322-4e41-9748-b4879a33b5f0 Taletha 2007-11-17T02:24:13Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#b8f136e1-e0ee-4a55-85c8-a763591ac7c2 and finishing that though...... I'd only have a problem with doing burlesque in a clearly bellydance costume. Only because the majority of humans seem to be stupid and won;t be able to separate the 2 styles. Though there are purists who would be offended no matter what you do. But you can never ever please them all. Just worry about pleasing yourself. Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:49:14 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#b8f136e1-e0ee-4a55-85c8-a763591ac7c2 Lorelei 2007-11-17T01:49:14Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#9a79d7e3-0eab-4f34-924f-222eb58cf763 I think there there should be no problem with separately working in both styles. And they should complement each other. I'd only have a problem with Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:46:22 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#9a79d7e3-0eab-4f34-924f-222eb58cf763 Lorelei 2007-11-17T01:46:22Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#ecd830d5-7652-4b15-bcd8-81ac3740ec2f i think you certainly wouldn't be the first or the last bellydancer that also does burlesque... I think you worked hard to get in the show in the first place and you should go out there and do your thing. there will always be someone to criticize no matter what you do...dont let the catty corner rain on your parade though :) Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:44:12 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#ecd830d5-7652-4b15-bcd8-81ac3740ec2f glenna 2007-11-17T01:44:12Z http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#1b17c845-5f95-4402-9f7c-06701751d6b1 but, I need opinions. Is it considered taboo in the bellydance world to dance burlesque alongside bellydance? I'm not (definitely not) talking about stripping in a bellydance costume, and I am not talking about simply doing bellydance moves while scantily clad. I am talking about *seperately* choosing to enjoy two different styles of dance. I am not a traditional or cab bellydancer, but I have one lovely instructor whi is more on the cab side, she was displeased that I would choose to burlesque, saying that it would be a reflection on her as my teacher. I am not sure what to do as I love bellydance much more than anything else. I would hate to see myself at odds with the local community, but I am not usually a rule follower....I am torn. My style of dance is a melting pot of all of the styles I have ever learned including bellydance, swing, salsa, cab, goth, and now burlesque..How can I sift out all of the bellydance influence as not to piss anyone off? I don't think it is possible. I also don't think I should HAVE to. I am seriously considering pulling out of the show I've agreed to do and offer them fire performance instead. I don't want any more drama in my life. Any opinions, conversation? Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:22:30 GMT http://gothicbellydance.tribe.net/thread/da475029-30f4-4b39-a26f-c7ab05406860#1b17c845-5f95-4402-9f7c-06701751d6b1 Kelly 2007-11-17T01:22:30Z